The Study of Racialism

Antoinette · New User Joined: 24 Jan 2008 {Posts: 27 }

I don't think African Americans deny that they are mixed or of Euro ancestry. for instance in my own family, we have always known that we were creole -French, Irish, American Indian, and black. There was never a question about this.

What matters is that in American society, if you look black; then you are just that, black. However if you cannot be defined by the American stereotype of African blackness; then you have more freedom to choose how you wish to be defined.

Most African Americans, although mixed, will always be seen as black and nothing more. even if they personally define themselves as mixed or multiracial.

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gemini072 · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2695 }

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gemini072 · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2695 }

Antoinette · New User Joined: 24 Jan 2008 {Posts: 27 }

Richard Miller

G-Man · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2649 }

gemini072 · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2695 }

I wonder if the blocking out of mainstream America that Afro descentant African American people and these people equating American society with White People, has something to do with it.

I remember watch a progrm on WWI or II and there was a segment about African Americans not being able to take part in the war, not being able to inlist. There was some video footage of large crowns of Colored people marching with smiles on their faces, American flags and signs for their inclusion as Americans into the military.

There was a scene in particular that still stands out where they ended up on the step of some Federal building and a chubby colored kid waving a flag while a sheriff tried to wrestle it out of his hand.

I Too Sing America

caribj · Suspended Joined: 14 Mar 2007 {Posts: 437 }

I suspect that AA refers to an ETHNIC identity, not a description of one's ancestry. When Gates did a series of ancestry profiles on PBS of AA celebrities, I dont recall any, even dark individuals, being exclusively SSAfrican. I dont recall any being surprised at that fact. I do recall one being shocked that he didnt have any Native American given that his ancestors had been enslaved by Native Americans and not whites. Only Gates I recall was shocked by his lineage. Not because he wasnt pure SSAfrican. But because he is only nominally so. In fact he spent a lot of time outlining that the main maternal ancestor had been married to, or at least had childdren with a white former slave master.

So it doesnt appear to be true that AAs deny their European ancestry. They have adopted an ethnic form of identification that has assiste dthem in their efforts to survive in the USA.

caribj · Suspended Joined: 14 Mar 2007 {Posts: 437 }

pianoplayer111 · Mentor Joined: 16 May 2007 {Posts: 379 }

Oprah was found to have NO European ancestry. T.D. Jakes was also found to have no European or other type of ancestry.

Grasshoppa

pianoplayer111 · Mentor Joined: 16 May 2007 {Posts: 379 }

Hmm...

but, Grasshoppa, your skin color being like Will Smith's might not be an indicator of European admixture at all. It could possibly be from another group. I would definitely do a DNA test if I had the money. Laughing

I believe that in most cases when a person checks "Black" or identifies as "Black"...it is not only because they are proud of this heritage. It is quite possible that like Grasshoppa, they are completely unaware of any white ancestry they might have...IF any. Therefore, they probably don't see the need to claim something that they feel no connection to. From what I've heard, many black Americans have no idea what tribe their ancestors belonged to or that light skin doesn't always come from slave rape. History is a vital part of everyone's life and it is unfortunate that some people never experience the chance to learn about their roots.

If somebody reaches back into the family tree and claims to be biracial/multiracial because of some fictional or distant great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother, I will probably be taken aback for a minute. But hey...if they want to call themselves blue people, that's their business. I'll simply cock my head to one side, smile politely, say "oh really?" and move on. If a "black" person with one white great-grandparent wants to say they're mixed, that's cool with me. I don't see that person as being biracial, of course, but their admixture isn't so distant that they shouldn't be able to acknowledge it if they wish. Smile

MP mulattoprince · Wizard Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }

People go by your phenotype more than who your mom, dad, great white, grate black, or whatever ancestors are. This is what I have seen over and over again. It is your phenotype (your physical appearance) that plays a major role in how you are seen mixed race wise not your ancestry.

Halle Berry (biracial) said that when she was in school black kids did not believe she was mixed, biracial, or had a white mother. Halle Berry told her mother about this and Halle’s mother told her that she will be seen as a black woman because of the way she looks.

Yet there are light skin multi generational girls who immediately are seen as mixed by black kids, and black Americans, and white Americans. The reason for this is simple, the way your phenotype looks. Lenny Kravitz is biracial, but in many Americans eyes he looks like some caramel brown skin black dude, and many blacks and whites would have never known Lenny was biracial if he did not become a famous singer. Terrence Howard is a multi generational mulatto and notice that Terrence Howard is seen as mixed race by blacks and whites.

Terence Howard looks more mixed race than Lenny Kravitz in phenotype.

Vanessa Williams the model looks more mixed race and biracial than many biracial women. Williams is a multigenerational mulatta and many blacks and whites publicly acknowledge Vanessa as mixed race. Mel B of spice girls is biracial (black father an white mom) but looks overwhelmingly black in phenotype. If Mel B was not famous her biracial ancestry would play no role when she walks down the street and people gaze at her phenotype.

I feel the reason people keep harping about ancrsty as a criteria for who is mixed is because they are deep down inside angry – because there are many multi generational mulattoes (light skin blacks) who show and look mixed.

And many of them look more mixed than many biracials, and this angers some people because they know that the destiny of multi generational mulattoes and biracials are connected, and can not be separated as long as the ODR is in effect. So get over it!

Also there are some multi generational mulattoes (light skin blacks), who look white or can pass for another race. And many biracial who can’t pass for white. These white looking MGM’s blend among whites and how come their ancestry is not mentioned simple because you are judged by your phenotype and not your genotype only.

If people were judged by genotype only and phenotype played no role then approximately 74 million whites would be labeled black. On top of that people don’t care if a person doesn’t view them as mixed, as long as they have the mixed race looking phenotype they know how they will be seen (mixed looking). I recommend that FGM (biracials), MGM, and SGM (second generational mix) work together because they all three make up what is called the mixed race. Like it or not this is how it is.

I view all three as the official three categories that make up the mixed race, and I am proud to be a apart of such a fine bunch of reincarnated souls. I support the mixed race and all three of the categories that make us up. This appreciation of my own allows me to appreciate other ethnic groups also.

pianoplayer111 · Mentor Joined: 16 May 2007 {Posts: 379 }

*claps* I completely agree, MP.

I remember the first time I saw a movie with Halle Berry in it. It might have been the Flintstones. I was a very young kid...I'm in my 20's now (still a kid to some!) Laughing

I was shocked when my White mother gently told me that the bronze beauty up there onscreen had a white mommy, too. I was literally filled with wonder as well as confusion. How come she didn't have blue eyes like me? Or long blond hair? Or white skin like mine? It didn't add up.

Over the years, I've run into quite a few American biracials and was shocked to discover that they were biracial upon seeing their mothers. I went by their phenotypes...everyone is guilty of that at some point. My high school boyfriend's younger half-sister was biracial. I've mentioned her in other threads. Dawn's mother, Carole, was a white Hispanic woman who completely immersed herself in AA culture. She literally "sounded black" if you know what I mean. She'd never had relationships with white men in her life. She was this tall, busty, outspoken correctional officer with short curly hair and green eyes. Her daughter Dawn had a deep olive complexion with dark brown eyes and dark curly hair. Dawn's nose was very broad from the front, little and buttony in profile, and her lips were thin. She didn't have particularly European features besides that and her skin was dark compared to mine. She is 22 years old and had her first baby at 17 or 18. The little boy looks identical to her mother...no one would ever believe he is her child. He is green-eyed and blond with fine features. Her other boy was born a year later. He looks very South Asian, with dark ruddy skin and black hair. The father of both boys is a dark-skinned AA.

Lots of AA guys thought Dawn was cute. She was short, slim, busty, and narrow-hipped. They thought she had "good hair". Rolling Eyes

I'm not sure how she identified herself, esp. around my ex's family. She sounded like an AA girl when she spoke, for the most part.

Then there was Amy, my friend from high school biology. Amy's mother was from Maine like my mother. Amy's mom had short brown hair and a boyish look about her. Amy herself had the phenotype of what some would call "light-skinned black". She was tall and goofy with very dark eyes and relaxed hair that fell to her shoulders. I was shocked to learn that Amy was biracial like me because she didn't look it at all. She was definitely lighter than Dawn was, but her overall appearance was still that of a black person.

People like Victoria Rowell also come to my mind because of your post, MP. She is relatively dark and she has two children who look completely different because of different fathers. Her biracial genes, combined with that of her daughter Maya's, resulted in Maya having a white phenotype. VR and Halle Berry are similar in coloring. You're correct in that for most people, phenotype does play a role in how one in judged.

Salsassin · Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 }

The problem is many people look for the zero sum phenotypes. The Blue eyes and the wide nose, the light skin and the curly hair. The African trait and the European trait.

But what people don't realize is that most features are codominant and therefore the features will be an average on many occasions of the two parents. So when people say Halle doesn't have the "mulatto" phenotype, I beg to differ. I bet you she is half way between her dad and mom, if not even more to her mom's side as the dad might have some EUro ancestry. But he probably did not have any recessive genes that would produce the flagrant blue eyes, or what not.

Just look at Obama's parents, an average of the two faces and Obama himself. Yet many say he doesn't have the "mulatto" face.

gemini072 · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2695 }

onlyhuman77 · Posted: Sun 06 Jul 2008 21:08 Post subject: