The Study of Racialism

fwsweet · Last edited by fwsweet on Mon 05 Dec 2005 20:07; edited 3 times in total

As we are all aware, “biracial” is a slippery term. As used in this forum, the word is not meant to reify the “race” notion. Instead, it simply uses common vernacular to denote someone of mixed Afro-European ancestry. The term is slippery because it is not obvious whom this label should describe.

Demographically, the largest U.S. socio-political group of mixed Afro-European ancestry are 74 million Americans who check off “White” on the census, sadly ignorant of their own rich heritage. The second-largest group are those who check off “Black,” deliberately turning their backs on the obvious in order to retaliate for what they see as centuries of oppression inflicted by their White ancestors. Third are members of the historically recent multiracial movement, who have learned to embrace all of their heritages. Uncounted, are the scattered members of traditionally endogamous communities called “maroons” by historians, “mestizos” by sociologists, and “triracial isolates” by anthropologists.

This forum is intended for discussion by and about people who fit any or all of the above usages of the term “biracial.”

gemini072 · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2695 }

Frank wrote: “Black,” deliberately turning their backs on the obvious in order to retaliate for what they see as centuries of oppression inflicted by their White ancestors.

Is it always like that though, most people are just going by what was passed on, look at all the millions of those same people who once were called Colored(not even something they chose) but went along with it...

mjw82704 · Posted: Sun 05 Mar 2006 18:42 Post subject: Turning My Back

I am Black. My mother was White and my father is Black. I choose to define myself in these terms because I see the world through a Black woman's eyes. I am a woman of color. My mother being White does not change that. I still feel oppression. I don't have White privileges. I love my mother nonetheless, but I am not biracial.

I find it interesting how people who have not lived my life choose to define me as turning my back or worse yet give me a racial category such as biracial. I think that the census has not changed the category for this because people from a Black and White background can still be oppressed. We should be a part of a group that is now being protected somewhat through Affirmative Action etc.

I cling to those who I understand and have the most in common with. Black people. People from this mixed parentage background were slaves as well. They fought to end slavery as well. Just because someone is a light skinned Black person does not mean that they are mixed. My husband is as light as I am. Both of his parents are Black. Every Black American is mixed due to slavery. But we are all Black. If someone is from a Black and White background and chooses to define themselves as White or Biracial that this their choice. I tried these definitions out myself, but they just did not work for me. We all transition and grow in life. But thank goodness for choices.

Powell · Guru Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2174 }

I disagree with Frank. Hispanics in the U.S. are by far the most "mixed race" population when compared to other groups.

It seems ridiculous to me for whites with a minority of black ancestry to call themselves "biracial" (which suggests a half and half "mulatto" inheritance and/or status). That is why I promote the terms "multiracial white" or "white multiracial" ("Creole White" would also be an acceptable term, similar to the Brazilian term "white of the land," popular in Bahia).

The most important thing is to fight the myth (which has an almost religious devotion among black-identified mulattoes and mixed-whites) of white racial purity. This is generally defined as the idea that a true "white" has no black ancestry or maybe a little genetically harmless American Indian ancestry.

It is my strong opinion that American blacks are damn fools to oppose official interracial marriage and and the increasing identification of mixed people with whites. Why? What is the purpose of marriage? What does it accomplish? Anyone who has read the history of marriage knows that it's main purpose is to create ties between families. (The white elites who created anti-miscegenation laws knew this). Blacks have to get their minds out of the bedroom and realize that. when one of their relatives marries a white person, family ties are created with all the new in-law's blood relatives, white in-laws and anyone else who comes into the family. This gives more and more whites a personal stake in resisting any attempts to revive racism.

Pretending to be a special or lighter kind of "black" in the name of a false racial "pride" (Who do you think you're kidding?) only confirms the main argument of white racist ideology - that "miscegenation" is racial suicide for whites. The Nazis told the Germans that their "race" would be destroyed if they continued mixing with "inferior" Slavs, Jews and Roma. You know what happened.

http://www.melungeon.org/?BISKIT=3912883513&CONTEXT=cat&cat=10058

http://www.interracialvoice.com/powell4.html

http://www.interracialvoice.com/powell8.html

http://www.interracialvoice.com/powell9.html

http://www.interracialvoice.com/powell14.html

Here is Charles Michael Byrd's defense of Anatole Broyard's choice to
identify as white and condemnation of Gregory Howard Williams' attempt to deny freedom of choice to other mixed people:

http://www.webcom.com/intvoice/editor13.html

Phil345 · Wizard Joined: 03 Oct 2005 {Posts: 520 }

Salsassin · Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 }

Phil345 · Wizard Joined: 03 Oct 2005 {Posts: 520 }

oevega

mjw82704 · Posted: Mon 06 Mar 2006 16:12 Post subject:

Powell Said:
Pretending to be a special or lighter kind of "black" in the name of a false racial "pride" (Who do you think you're kidding?) only confirms the main argument of white racist ideology - that "miscegenation" is racial suicide for whites. The Nazis told the Germans that their "race" would be destroyed if they continued mixing with "inferior" Slavs, Jews and Roma. You know what happened.

I disagree with Powell on this point. I don’t believe that persons from a background of one Black parent and one White parent considering themselves Black or Light skinned Black should matter. Special is sort of confusing to me, but if someone wants to identify as that then more power to them. I think the idea of choice is very important. For years minorities in general have been forced into using a term to identify themselves that may or may not have been his or her preference. I also beleive that, this is part of the natural racial transition of non-white, of color individuals. A great book that describes this is “Why are all the Black kids sitting together in the Cafeteria?”

I understand what Powell is saying regarding standing against the racist ideologies that were created in the past to preserve the idea of whiteness. Yes it was disgusting. I think the fact that I exist on this earth today is a stand all in it’s self. The fact that my White mother claimed me is the stand against racism. I however like having the choice. It makes me feel very proud of a part of me that for years I wished was not there (when I was in racial transition). It is also a self-esteem issue.

From what I have heard through out the years from others is that I look like I could be Mexican, Puerto Rican, Multiracial, or Black. Usually Mexican or Puerto Rican. I have had many Puerto Rican people upset that I would not identify with that race. They thought that I was trying to kid them and I was not. My husband and I look similar and he is from two Black parents. He would obviously never consider himself multiracial, and he is not trying to kid anyone, but some may think he is. I think that it is unfair to say that people from one Black parent and one White one are trying to kid anyone by saying that they are Black, or light skinned Black. There are plenty of Black folks with two Black parents that look ambiguous as well. They don’t fit people’s stereotypes. You can’t please everyone.

I can only speak for myself. I am Black. I cling to those that I have felt the most comfortable with over the years. Saying that I am Black to me means that I am proud to be apart of something that was and still can be looked down upon. I would think that it would be harder those individuals who have no racial vagueness (example. Looking like a White or Black person) it happens. I am not sure what I would call myself then? A book that I hold very dear to my heart because I think it promotes Black pride is a children’s book called “Shades of Black I am Black I am Unique.”
http://www.blackliterature.com/corner/index.cfm
Very Happy

G-Man · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2649 }

mjw82704 · Posted: Mon 06 Mar 2006 17:27 Post subject:

From what I have heard through out the years from others is that I look like I could be Mexican, Puerto Rican, Multiracial, or Black. Usually Mexican or Puerto Rican. I have had many Puerto Rican people upset that I would not identify with that race. They thought that I was trying to kid them and I was not. My husband and I look similar and he is from two Black parents. He would obviously never consider himself multiracial, and he is not trying to kid anyone, but some may think he is. I think that it is unfair to say that people from one Black parent and one White one are trying to kid anyone by saying that they are Black, or light skinned Black. There are plenty of Black folks with two Black parents that look ambiguous as well. They don’t fit people’s stereotypes. You can’t please everyone.

Are you saying that many Puerto Ricans you encounter are upset that you do not identify as Puerto Rican or that you do not identify as a mixed race person? Further Puerto Ricans and Mexicans are not a race of people; they are a ethnic group or nationality.[u]Puerto Ricans, of course, have African ancestry, and that is more likely why they think you are one of them. But then, wouldn't this make them black as well?

I had one Puerto Rican woman that did not like it when I talked about being Black or White people because she said that I didn't look Black enough to do that. I did not fit her steretype. But it seemed mostly that I didn't say I was Puerto Rican. This happend quite a bit when I lived in Connecticut. They thought that I was not telling the truth. It was the case of being sterotyped you look like one of us, you must be one of us type of attitue. My Puerto Rican friend now, will sometimes say to me "you know that your husband and you look like a Puerto Rican couple" ,and I will say "yes, but we are not." She will ask me if that bothers me that other people might think that? and I will say no it does not. People can think what they want. I have run into a lot of people who want to define me as Black as Mixed as Mexican as Puerto Rican. I finally made a choice that fits me and my life best, and it is crazy to me that people try to define me still, based on their beleif systems instead of respecting mine. Hearing oppionions is fine with me, I can respect that but not when people can't open their minds to me. I am not a generalization. I am a person. The many Mexican and Puerto Rican people that I have come into contact with have just referred to themselves as just that Mexican or Puerto Rican. I am not sure what your referring to when you say it is not their race? I know that Puerto Ricans are from a ancestoral background of Black, and I think two other races but anyone I have come into contact with has said they were Puerto Rican. I now that Mexicans are also a mixture of a few racial backgrounds. I just normally go with whatever the person says they are. I don't tell people what they should call themselves or identify with regard to race or anything else for that matter. It is their choice. I hope that answers your question. Thanks for sharing.

Melissa Smile

oevega · Posted: Mon 06 Mar 2006 17:43 Post subject: Puerto rican

mjw82704 · Posted: Mon 06 Mar 2006 17:53 Post subject:

Hi,

It seems to me here we have a problem of meaning.

To the question "Are you Puerto Rican?" the most logical answer seems to be "No, I am not. I am American". Because Puerto Rico is a country, not a race. And "Black" is not a country, but a phenotype.

Now, to the idea that Puerto Ricans are descendents of Africans, I would say everyone of us is descendent of Africans. Some leave Africa 60.000 years ago and others followed later.

Perhaps the best is to use the "some-but-not-all" rule.

Some Puerto Ricans are Blacks, but not all are Blacks.

Some Puerto Ricans are African descendents, but not all are African descendents.

Some Puerto Ricans look "Puerto Ricans", but not all of them do.

Moreover. Not all Black persons came from Africa, some come from India, Australia, New Guinea, etc. Because "Black" is only a skin color.

Finally, Puerto Ricans, I believe, don't identify with the culture of Black Americans, because they have their own culture: the Hispanic culture of Puerto Rico.

Set theory. That's all.

Regards,

Omar Vega

I agree Very Happy

thanks for sharing.I enjoying reading everyone's point of view.
Melissa

Salsassin · Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 }

Phil345 · Wizard Joined: 03 Oct 2005 {Posts: 520 }

fwsweet · Last edited by fwsweet on Tue 14 Mar 2006 13:24; edited 5 times in total

Salsassin · Suspended Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3508 }

For it NOT to prove Phil incorrect we would have to ignore the fact that there were more White/Men black women in marriage, whcih would not be slavemaster rape, We would have to imagine that all male genetic contribution was rape. Considering the high level of female contribution, I find this highly unlikely, finally we factor in infanticiede, and a whole different tale is being told.

Powell · Guru Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2174 }

I think we've all heard that power is an aphrodisiac. There is great logic in a slave woman seeking a liaison with her master or another white male. He could give her and their children protection (and often freedom). It is wrong to label those white ancestors as rapists without specific evidence against individuals.

We also know that antebellun "slave breeding" existed. Why is it assumed that a slave woman's mating with another slave was never rape?

Powell · Guru Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2174 }

MJW82704 said:

oevega