Posted: Fri 14 Oct 2005 16:42 Post subject: 5 BLACK PRESIDENTS
The Five Black Presidents of The United States Of America?
WHO IS NEXT?
I'm sure these claims are honestly believed by some and of course that's their right. Just as long as an opinion is not presented as fact, and an identity is not being forced on someone against their will.
It all boils down to ones definition of "blackness" I suppose... Is it an invisible "taint"/caste/racial designation that should carry more clout than ones self-identification? A self description that should be accepted by others whether the person in question "looks black" or not? A biologically inescable fact for most and a choice for others? No one in America seems to have come to an agreement on this issue and probably never will...
Posted: Wed 16 Aug 2006 03:52 Post subject: There is SIX African/Mutliracial-American U.S Presidents...
Hi! Zsana, Actually there is SIX African/Multiracial-American United States Presidents and one of them is David Dwight Eisenhower (1890-1969)... I tried to trace our 34th United States President Dwight David Eisenhower's mulatto or quadroon mother, Ida Elizabeth Stover's true Africa or mulatto mother??? But I was able to trace Ida's father, William Link of Marylard but I strongly believe that he was father of his mulatto slave mistress (?) or true Africa fielding slave woman's child: Elizabeth Ida (Juda) Link... Irony you can able to trace Dwight's German father, David Jacob Eisenhower's family in German but not with Dwight's mulatto or quadroon mother, Ida Elizabeth Stover because they did NOT want to do any far with Africa blood... :-l Roosevelt D. Odom, Jr.
Daniel STOVER was born about 1780 in Augusta Co., Virgnia. He died on 18 Jan 1862 in Augusta Co., Virginia. He married Mary HANNAH on 30 Mar 1803 in Augusta Co., Virginia.
Mary HANNAH was born about 1781 in Augusta Co., Virgnia. She died about 1852. She married Daniel STOVER on 30 Mar 1803 in Augusta Co., Virginia.
They had the following children:
M i Simon P. STOVER was born on 28 Sep 1822. He died on 11 Dec 1873.
Simon P. STOVER [Parents] was born on 28 Sep 1822 in Augusta Co., Virginia. He died on 11 Dec 1873 in Augusta Co., Virginia. He married Elizabeth Ida (Juda) LINK on 31 Dec 1848 in Augusta Co., Virginia.
Elizabeth Ida (Juda) LINK [Parents] was born on 19 Nov 1822 in Augusta Co., Virginia. She died on 28 Mar 1867 in Augusta Co., Virginia. She married Simon P. STOVER on 31 Dec 1848 in Augusta Co., Virginia.
They had the following children:
F i Ida Elizabeth STOVER was born on 1 May 1862. She died on 11 Sep 1946.
Frederick EISENHOWER [Parents] was born on 15 Jul 1794 in Pa. He died on 13 Mar 1884 in Abilene, Kansas. He married Barbara MILLER in 1816 in Linglestown, Dauphin, Pa.
Barbara MILLER [Parents] was born on 27 May 1789 in Elizabethville, Dauphin, Pa. She died on 1 Jan 1862 in Millersburg, Dauphin, Pa. She was buried in Free Grace Breth, Lykens Valley, Dauphin, Pa. She married Frederick EISENHOWER in 1816 in Linglestown, Dauphin, Pa.
They had the following children:
F i Polly EISENHAUER was born on 13 Aug 1817 in Elizabethville, Dauphin, Pa. She died on 9 Dec 1863.
F ii Katherine EISENHAUER was born about 1830 in <Pa>.
M iii Samuel Peter EISENHAUER was born on 4 Feb 1831 in Elizabethville, Dauphin, Pa.
F iv Anny EISENHAUER was born about 1834 in <Pa>.
F v Catherine EISENHAUER was born on 11 Jul 1824 in , , Pa. She died on 7 Nov 1907 in Abilene, Dickinson, Ks. She was buried in Bethel Cemetery, , Dickinson, Ks.
F vi Anna EISENHAUER was born on 25 Aug 1819 in Elizabethville, Dauphin, Pa. She died on 26 Dec 1849 in Elizabethville, Dauphin, Pa.
M vii John David EISENHAUER was born on 23 Jun 1821 in Elizabethville, Dauphin, Pa. He died on 13 Dec 1840.
M viii Jacob Frederick EISENHOWER was born on 19 Sep 1826. He died on 20 May 1906.
Ferdinand II (V) "The Catholic" King Of ARAGÓN, CASTILE & LEON [Parents] was born on 10 Mar 1452 in , Sos, Zaragoza, Spain. He died on 23 Jan 1516 in , Madrigalejo, Caceres, Spain. He married Germaine De FOIX on 19 Oct 1505 in , Blois, Loir-Et-Cher, France.
Other marriages:
LARREA, Toda De
RUIZ Y IBORRE, Aldonza
CASTILE AND LÉON, Isabel I "The Catholic" Queen Of
Famous for driving the Moors out of Spain in 1492 and then sending Columbus to discover America.
Germaine De FOIX [Parents] was born about 1490 in Of, Norbonne, Aude, France. She died on 15 Oct 1536 in , Liria, Valencia, Spain. She married Ferdinand II (V) "The Catholic" King Of ARAGÓN, CASTILE & LEON on 19 Oct 1505 in , Blois, Loir-Et-Cher, France.
Other marriages:
BRANDENBURG-ANSBACH-BAYREUTH, Johann Prince Of
They had the following children:
M i Juan Prince Of ARAGÓN, CASTILE & LEON was born on 3 May 1509 in , Valladolid, Valladolid, Spain. He died on 3 May 1509.
John MILLER [Parents] was born about 1755 in Pa. He died on 4 Mar 1788 in Pa. He was married in Pa.
He had the following children:
F i Anna MILLER was born about 1781 in Pa.
M ii Jacob MILLER was born about 1783 in Pa.
M iii John MILLER was born about 1785 in Pa.
F iv Elizabeth MILLER was born about 1787 in Pa.
F v Barbara MILLER was born on 27 May 1789. She died on 1 Jan 1862.
John Peter EISENHOWER [Parents] was born in 1716 in Germany. He died on 10 Jun 1801 in Pa. He married Anna Margaret DISSINGER on 29 Jan 1777 in Christ Lutheran, Stouchsburg, Berks Co, Pa.
Other marriages:
GRAFF, Elizabeth
SCHMIDT, Maria Elizabeth
Anna Margaret DISSINGER [Parents] was born about 1750 in Christ Lutheran, Stouchsburg, Berks Co, Pa. She died on 18 Nov 1815 in Lower Paxton, Dauphin, Pa. She was buried in Dauphin, Pa. She married John Peter EISENHOWER on 29 Jan 1777 in Christ Lutheran, Stouchsburg, Berks Co, Pa.
They had the following children:
M i John Jacob EISENHOWER was born on 13 Apr 1777 in , Berks, Pa.
F ii Catherine EISENHAUER was born about 1780 in , Berks, Pa.
F iii Ann EISENHAUER was born about 1781 in , Berks, Pa.
F iv Christine EISENHAUER was born about 1783 in , Berks, Pa.
F v Barbara EISENHOWER was born about 1784 in Pa. She died after 1805.
F vi Barbara EISENHAUER was born in Mar 1784 in , Berks, Pa. She was christened on 16 May 1784 in Harrisburg, Dauphin, Pa, Shoops Ref. Ch..
F vii Margaret EISENHAUER was born about 1787 in , Berks, Pa.
M viii John Peter EISENHAUER was born on 4 Jan 1790 in , Berks, Pa.
M ix Frederick EISENHOWER was born on 15 Jul 1794. He died on 13 Mar 1884.
Ferdinand II (V) "The Catholic" King Of ARAGÓN, CASTILE & LEON [Parents] was born on 10 Mar 1452 in , Sos, Zaragoza, Spain. He died on 23 Jan 1516 in , Madrigalejo, Caceres, Spain. He married Toda De LARREA in Not Md.
Other marriages:
FOIX, Germaine De
RUIZ Y IBORRE, Aldonza
CASTILE AND LÉON, Isabel I "The Catholic" Queen Of
Famous for driving the Moors out of Spain in 1492 and then sending Columbus to discover America.
Toda De LARREA was born about 1455 in Of, Zaragoza, Zaragoza, Spain. She married Ferdinand II (V) "The Catholic" King Of ARAGÓN, CASTILE & LEON in Not Md.
They had the following children:
F i Maria De ARAGÓN was born about 1476 in Of, Zaragoza, Zaragoza, Spain. She died after 1530.
Edmund De HOLAND [Parents] was born on 6 Jan 1382/1383 in Brockenhurst, Kent, England. He was christened on 8 Jan 1382/1383 in St Thomas, Brockenhurst, Hampshire, England. He died on 15 Sep 1408 in Ile De Brbehat, Ccotes-Du-Nord, France. He was buried in Abbey, Bourne, Lincolnshire, England. He married Constance Princess Of ENGLAND in (not Married).
Constance Princess Of ENGLAND [Parents] was born about 1374 in Of Castle, Conisbrough, Yorkshire, England. She was christened in Of, Kings Langley, Hertfordshire, England. She died on 28 Nov 1416 in , Reading, Berkshire, England. She was buried in Abbey, Reading, Berkshire, England. She married Edmund De HOLAND in (not Married).
I have been searching this site for John Hanson, as I just found out about him, and think that you did not discuss him yet. He is more or less America's first president, and is discussed on many site's. What ties in neatly with my own research after the Black and Coloured European elite (1500-1789), is that Hanson's Swedish origins and birth does not negate the possibility of him being Black or Coloured. He could have been a Black Dutch, on arrival, but from a patrician background. The painted portrait is great and tantalising. So, not only 5 or 6 but perhaps 7 Black presidents? The site's are not all very well researched, some even showing photograph's which could never have been Hanson's nor his parents. So I wonder if anyone here know's about any serious research about John Hanson.
NONE were Black or AA. Now, weither or not they had African ancestry or DNA markers is another story....
Quote:
For some reason I could not acces 'Black' on this forum to read the ODR definition. I hope there is some scientific research done to back this up. I try again, later.
Read the ODR definition and posted a question about the SSA part of the definition. But please explain to me how you decided that these 5-7 presidents are not Black nor AA. What method have you used to come to these facts.
Last edited by Egmond Codfried on Sat 18 Oct 2008 09:53; edited 1 time in total
For some reason I could not acces 'Black' on this forum to read the ODR definition.
At the top of every page of this web site is a line saying: Please read The Rules before posting.
Just click on the words "The Rules." They are a link to the site's posting rules. Since the sentence asks you to "Please read The Rules before posting," it would probably be a good idea to read The Rules before posting.
You will find what you are looking for if you follow that link and scroll down to paragraph 3.3.11.
Did you, güira99, do any reserach or do you have any thoughts on these matters in this threat as well? It would make me very happy if you shared.
güira99 wrote:
Quote:
Barack Obama is not black. He is the first mixed-race politician ever to get this far in the onerous and arduously testing American electoral process
This is not correct. Obama is like the " 50/50" candidate, ( possibility he also has native american from many generations back from his mother side), but he definetaly is not the first " mixed race".
Bill Clinton had a Cherokee grandmother, so genetically speaking, he is a Mestizo, and if the one-drop rule were to be applied to white-native american mixtures as well, like the media is applying to Obama.He wouldn't even be White at all, he would just be " The Native-American president".
Other presidents from the 19th century too, had admixtures, even SS AFro,. President Hayes, I think, even Martin Van Buren.
So I don't know why " Obama" is the only one singled out as the " only and fist mixed race guy for president" out there. There journalist have to do some research before they write their articles.
For some reason I could not acces 'Black' on this forum to read the ODR definition.
At the top of every page of this web site is a line saying: Please read The Rules before posting.
Just click on the words "The Rules." They are a link to the site's posting rules. Since the sentence asks you to "Please read The Rules before posting," it would probably be a good idea to read The Rules before posting.
You will find what you are looking for if you follow that link and scroll down to paragraph 3.3.11.
I sence a misunderstanding coming up. People are not born with their genotype written on their forehead. Someone has to go and research it in some fashion to be able to announce to the whole world that so and so is 'not Black' and 'not AA.' So what method have you used in this instance? From your answer I might understand what I'm doing wrong, when I start from scratch.
[to Melani] But please explain to me how you decided that these 5-7 presidents are not Black nor AA. What method have you used to come to these facts.
Straw man. Melani already agreed that they might well have had recent SS ancestry, just like one-third of all White Americans.
Egmond Codfried wrote:
[to FWSweet] From your answer I might understand what I'm doing wrong, when I start from scratch.
You said, "I could not acces 'Black' on this forum to read the ODR definition." I was merely explaining how you could go about accessing this definition (actually, at least two definitions).
Egmond Codfried wrote:
People are not born with their genotype written on their forehead. Someone has to go and research it in some fashion to be able to announce to the whole world that so and so is 'not Black' and 'not AA.'
"Black" in the sense of "a member of the African American community" is determined and announced by the individual himself (rather like membership in a club or political party) and is independent of any specific level of Afro-Euro admixture. In this sense, Barack Obama is Black, Mark Stebbins is Black, but Alexander Hamilton was not Black.
"Black" in the sense of having significant (say 10 percent or more for argument's sake) sub-Saharan admixture markers can only be determined by autosomal DNA tests. But it can also be estimated from knowing the phenotypes of the individual's grandparents. In this sense, Barack Obama is Black, Alexander Hamilton was also Black, but Mark Stebbins is not Black.
[to Melani] But please explain to me how you decided that these 5-7 presidents are not Black nor AA. What method have you used to come to these facts.
Straw man. Melani already agreed that they might well have had recent SS ancestry, just like one-third of all White Americans.
Egmond Codfried wrote:
[to FWSweet] From your answer I might understand what I'm doing wrong, when I start from scratch.
You said, "I could not acces 'Black' on this forum to read the ODR definition." I was merely explaining how you could go about accessing this definition (actually, at least two definitions).
Egmond Codfried wrote:
People are not born with their genotype written on their forehead. Someone has to go and research it in some fashion to be able to announce to the whole world that so and so is 'not Black' and 'not AA.'
"Black" in the sense of "a member of the African American community" is determined and announced by the individual himself (rather like membership in a club or political party) and is independent of any specific level of Afro-Euro admixture. In this sense, Barack Obama is Black, Mark Stebbins is Black, but Alexander Hamilton was not Black.
"Black" in the sense of having significant (say 10 percent or more for argument's sake) sub-Saharan admixture markers can only be determined by autosomal DNA tests. But it can also be estimated from knowing the phenotypes of the individual's grandparents. In this sense, Barack Obama is Black, Alexander Hamilton was also Black, but Mark Stebbins is not Black.
Thank you. A bit tiresome, but we are getting there! There is, you might agree, a lot more substance to your answer then to dear Melani's, no?
So you say: These people have to announce to the world that they are Black. And if you know their grandparents phenotypes, they can be estimated as Blacks.
Well I have been collecting personal descriptions, sometimes autobiographical. These I have compared with portraits. I have looked at genealogies. Then I looked at social ties, marriages candidates and partners, geographic movements, themes in a person’s works. But mostly I was impressed with intermarriage and claiming Blue Blood, while wearing a jewelled badge which showed a SSA Moor. Ornamenting the castle staterooms with SSA Moor's. I really do not think I have been doing anything wrong.
Now I wonder why Ole George Washington would go and sleep with a coloured woman, having a son, recognising him unofficially, and raising this coloured son as well. During a time when many nasty things were said about AA's.
Now I wonder why Ole George Washington would go and sleep with a coloured woman, having a son, recognising him unofficially, and raising this coloured son as well. During a time when many nasty things were said about AA's.
Assuming he did "go to sleep with a coloured woman" it wasn't all that uncommon in the U.S. during slavery. Even after slavery and the implementation of Jim Crow, there were staunch white supremacists that had their "second families" with black women. Senator Bilbo of Mississippi was rumored to have a black mistriss and children with her, and we all now about Strom Thurmond.
So you say: These people have to announce to the world that they are Black. And if you know their grandparents phenotypes, they can be estimated as Blacks.
No! No! No! What I said was that membership in the A-A community is chosen but recent SS ancestry can be estimated.
If you deliberately conflated those two very different things, you should be suspended. If you honestly cannot grasp the difference between membership in an ethnic community and genetic ancestry, ther is no point in continuing this thread.
Now I wonder why Ole George Washington would go and sleep with a coloured woman, having a son, recognising him unofficially, and raising this coloured son as well. During a time when many nasty things were said about AA's.
Assuming he did "go to sleep with a coloured woman" it wasn't all that uncommon in the U.S. during slavery. Even after slavery and the implementation of Jim Crow, there were staunch white supremacists that had their "second families" with black women. Senator Bilbo of Mississippi was rumored to have a black mistriss and children with her, and we all now about Strom Thurmond.
At this point I do not trust the old assumptions. I also look for specifics, about individuals. Why do people sleep with people outside their social class or ethnic group? Was this coloured lady outside his social group? Was she outside his ethnic group? Was his natural son outside his social group or class? Who did the son marry? Personally I'm not at ease with how history is presented, I want to change it, so you will find me questioning anything. Because we have so little leads, I try to squeeze any piece of information for clues. I have focused my attention to US history because its a strong reflection of what happened in Europe (1500-1789). Its a pity people will perceive my research as some high crime.
So you say: These people have to announce to the world that they are Black. And if you know their grandparents phenotypes, they can be estimated as Blacks.
No! No! No! What I said was that membership in the A-A community is chosen but recent SS ancestry can be estimated.
If you deliberately conflated those two very different things, you should be suspended. If you honestly cannot grasp the difference between membership in an ethnic community and genetic ancestry, ther is no point in continuing this thread.
Why would you assume I would confuse the matter deliberatly? What is there to gain by fooling oneself. The fate of my research is not decided on a internetsite. We are just learning and informing.
How does one become a member of a ethnic community? Besides being born into it. They do not give out membership cards. So a person has to do certain things to be perceived as a member of a certain ethnic group. We have to find out what these things might be. I found marriying or having lovers and friends and children from a group, indicate some kind of membership. I have shown that his portrait with a Moor showed noble leanings on the part of Washington. People who are happy with history as it is told, will not question these things, but accept them as written in stone. This is standstill instead of progress. Every generation should rewrite history and include the views of groups which were first not asked about their opions.
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